Follow

Hey I want more of y'all to see this than just the boost that probably went by quick:

@silverspookgames - awesome person btw - had a conversation with DJ NDN about "re-indigenization"

youtube.com/watch?v=VjGwc8TfLi

I'm only a few minutes in but I'm nodding along real hard.

"This impending apocalypse is just for white people."

(after talking about how the Anishinaabee are in their "Mad Max... apocalypse")

@silverspookgames

re: prophecies

Lakhota folk have a few prophecies about white folk; my favorite is that in about 2029 or so, white folk are gonna come to the black hills, hat-in-hand, and ask all the folk of turtle island (who will also be there because of disasters in their own territories, it's implied) to teach them how to save their own asses

Show thread

@MoMartin if you listen to this I'd love to hear any thoughts you have on any part of them, if you've got the gumption

Show thread

WOAH it was illegal to speak hawaiian until 1986?!?!

lakhotiyapi was de-criminalized in 1979, if I remember right

Show thread

I've honestly come to understand "why conlangs" a lot more and would probably understand if an organization made it agianst the rules to use english

Show thread

@wuz You (all who read this) should follow @silverspookgames because they post and boost a /lot/ of great stuff that's helped me learn a lot for... however long I've followed them.

@MoMartin I don't necessarily wanna drag Silverspoons into the convo since I don't actually talk to them too much, but do you mean environmental issues? Yea.

Communities coming en masse to the black hills? not yet, that i'm aware of.

@emsenn Well, I meant more there's a beginning of consciousness in white eco-circles, I feel like anyway, that indigenous people are going to be essential to the project of healing the land. But maybe that's just from the super privileged place I'm sitting, in a very left environment

@MoMartin Oh! No, I agree that is increasingly popular; I infact saw something using google trends to demonstrate how it's not just an increase in conversation but a larger portion of the conversation

I unfortunately think almost all of that conversation is very appropriativeness and fails to grok what might be the most important part of indigenity, across the planet: that it is indigenity to a land. what works there might not work here.

@MoMartin (that is'nt like, a subtoot at you, I just can't acknowledge the trend without warning about the appropriation I see in it.)

@emsenn Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, there's a lot of problems still with the way white eco thinkers approach indigenous communities, including constructing Indigenous people as somehow "closer to nature." Like, on the one hand, great, acknowledge the genius of indigenous land management, but also, like, "closer to nature" is one slip of the tongue away from "savage" or "animal" y'know?

@MoMartin You would believe how common that is. My garden does well? of course. native magic. animals love me? native magic.

i'm like a fucking elf.

@emsenn I literally read a fantasy book where elves were essentially tiny fairy sized natives. Just thought of that. Fucked.

@MoMartin One phrasing I like to use, that highlights how I think white folk can't really see stuff, is to point out that to a lot of white folk, they only see the shadow who I am casts where it intersects with their way of life

they can see the effects of what i do, but only in a certain way, and since the basis for the action doesn't work for them, it just... is magic.

@emsenn @MoMartin Yeah. That consciousness of the role of Indigenous people in ecoactivism, as I've observed, is only in a state of oft-performative (as you said) nascency. I think the larger left as I've observed it, outside my specific circles, have a, for lack of a better term, white approach to renurturing the environment—often outright ignoring the Indigenous voices their rhetoric usually stems from. There's a start, but it's a slow one, I feel.

@nothingwindsky @MoMartin My big hope is it snowballs so that there's a line of white folk going "shhhhhhhhhush!" to all the new white folk coming to learn, and so then indigenous folk can ACTUALLY just talk for a while.

cause like, pragmatically a lot of indigneous decolonizers are new to public speaking or writing and if they can't talk without getting talked over, they'll not be able to practice and get the message out real good in a way more folk can learn

@emsenn @MoMartin Mhm. It speaks to a larger cultural lesson white people need to learn about keeping their mouthes shut in narratives they are auxiliary to. Hai, any talking-over cannot be tolerated. 👏

@nothingwindsky It really bums me out because like... I feel like I'm filling a vacuum in conversation by speaking up how I do, but that vacuum only exists because the conversation is even more intolerable to feminine folk in indigenous communities, especially those living more indigenous of lifestyles.

I'm mad salty that reply-guys, basically, mean that I can't find very much, relatively, coming from indigenous women. (ignoring how they're like, being targeted for death) @MoMartin

@emsenn @MoMartin Ah, that's significant. A necessary component of pragmatic decolonial organization is creating space for Indigenous women and eliminating space for inexcusable misogyny. Otherwise everyone suffers from their lack of input.

@emsenn @nothingwindsky In a very pragmatic sense, thinking of silence and talking, I wonder about this style of conversation I have, that's been measured as more prominent among Jews, called cooperative overlap. In short, we tend to interrupt and agree, add, and then expect you to keep talking. So I wonder how to navigate that when other people are struggling to talk.

@emsenn @nothingwindsky sorry, I should say, it's common among Jews of my background, ashkenazim, the Jews of Europe.

@MoMartin @nothingwindsky

This might be too big a tangent but one thing I've been trying to do is view talking as more significant, and thinking about what mode I'm talking in, and if it's appropriate and stuff.

Interrupting folk is I think a fine default, as long as you're making the choice to use your default as the conversation goes, y'know?

I've been thinking of more conversations as like, rapid storytellings.

Also, we're always using rhetorical devices, even if we don't name 'em, 1/n

@MoMartin @nothingwindsky so trying to name them as they pass by seems... helpful, I think.

But also in real life I have practiced having very slow conversations, where I will legit take like 10 seconds to reply to someone without feeling awkward about it at all.

@emsenn @MoMartin Mhm. Different manners of speech arise from different social contexts—we consider the environment and scenario, the people we speak to (e.g., audience design), and the ends and means of conversation. I think we see in this pluralistic mindset that each serves its utility.

Fast and not necessarily perfectly composed speech when behind a megaphone, or devising a chant for a demonstration or protest. Slower in lower-intensity, more methodical settings. Yes.

@MoMartin @emsenn I think organizing must invite and accept a plurality of manners of communication. This not only refers to ecoactivism, but rather a greater conversation about accepting people of different backgrounds. Moreover, developing a transparency between coalitioned organizing people about each others' communicative style could importantly foster understanding and productive dialogue. Good contribution, Mo! ^_^

@nothingwindsky @MoMartin Yea of course whoever you're talking to should also equally respect your thing as a valid rhetorical device that has a purpose and stuff, and if it's the right one for the task then that's okay too

@emsenn @MoMartin Yes, and honestly your wishful hypothetical scenario sort of brings to mind the utility of a mass of white allies in that sense. Or perhaps "utility" is generous and it would simply be a nice thing. We don't *need* them, of course—as much as they would like to think so. But to have them sit and listen would indicate a more revolutionary cultural shift (away from white people taking up as much space as possible) that would be pleasant to witness.

@emsenn @MoMartin is the difference here 'indigenous people are good at taking care of the land they lived in for the last X thousand years' vs 'indigenous people are somehow inherently better at conservation in general than non-native people'?

@emsenn the movement to restore it started to build at the grassroots in the 70s, I was taught

@emsenn thanks! Looking forward to checking this out.

@emsenn @silverspookgames
Conlang history/international auxillary language:

Even Esperanto was criminalized and speakers were sent to the Holocaust. In the U.S. the military tried to co-opt it for military training and renamed it 'the aggressor language'. They renamed a language that literally translates as 'one who hopes' that...

@emsenn @silverspookgames I love that band. Saw 'em at the Creek Nation Festival a few years ago and last year at The Gathering Place's grand opening. They had a better audience at Gathering Place, Creek Nation booked them as an opening act for Kool and the Gang.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
myasstodon.xyz

Originally a small latinx / chicanx community, now open to all poc! Open to anyone from the culture cousins