Patreon's move into usury is a lesson in what "sustainable" means in a lot of business contexts: a business that is capable of eating itself to produce a greater return on revenue, while expanding to provide new services faster than it consumes itself.

("Sustainable" is literally the word used by their vice president of finance to explain Patreon Capital, a patron-contribution advance financing service.)


An underappreciated element of Patreon Capital, in the discussion I've seen about it, is its emphasis on using your presence on Patreon as a metric in determining your advance qualifications.

That is, the more properly you use Patreon, as they define it, the more advantageous using Patreon will be to you. (Does that sound like another domineering force in our life? Hmm.)

Imagine if your credit card rate was based on how well you used Facebook - I bet none of y'all would be posting here.


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I just recently set up a Patreon, because many people said they frankly wouldn't donate - or would donate less (or less often) if I didn't make myself available through that platform.

So if you think they don't already have an influence on the sharing of wealth between the working class, well, I can tell you: you're wrong.

3/3ish I'll probably have more

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They are doing one of two things (possibly both):

(A) Trying to devalue you as much as possible based on their predictions that you die sooner rather than later. (Pay you as little as possible with the false promise of more "security" later; this is analogous to how many social security recipients die before they reach benefit age. It's also how Google deceived many early internet writers into permitting/allowing ads on their sites).

(B) Trying to increase the number of transaction fees they can take from your "audience" (thus from you as well), based on some convoluted, inequitable system of "monetization" that the boring and uncreative white culture has been using against PoC for at least 65 years.

@emsenn (FYI: credit card ratings is, as far as I can tell, a Very American Thing. I think EU-wide consumer protection laws makes it essentially a non-issue here, for example.)

@pettter That's fair, it's impressive how insidious y'all's mechanisms for coercing social conformity are over across the ocean. ;)

@checkervest They're opening Patreon Capital: creators can apply for an advance on the contributions they're receiving.

@checkervest I really wish I could afford to tell people "Willing to pay me? Great! How much does that work to in work hours? Mm, okay, so: work that much less and try and figure out a way to build a society where you don't have to pay me."

Unfortunately most folks can't just work less for less pay, cause salaries, hourly obligations, etc., so it's a non-starter from that perspective, but it's what I wish could happen.

@checkervest (I'm generally against charitable cash giving because it just motivates the giver to earn more to replace it. the exception is % based tithing, and I think i've heard some religious sects even do like a bracketed tithing thing now so you just, can't earn above X without giving all of it above that to the group?

I have a lot of feelings on it and most of them don't really matter because it's a rigged game.)

@emsenn I have a lot of feelings about charitable cash giving but I'm not sure how well I'd be able to express them right now. I definitely dislike tithing, because not only is it frequently a whole lot of money which families can't often afford, which pisses me off, it leads to the mindset of "I already paid at church, I don't have to do anything else to help anyone in any way" and that pisses me off too

@checkervest I guess I don't mean "tithing" in the sense of going to one group but as in making it a fixed (percent) component of your budget, I'm pretty categorically against just giving a group money each month because they say to

@emsenn ah okay yeah, I see what you mean. I hear "tithing" and I instantly think church haha

@checkervest @emsenn same but that's because I grew up in that world. Never heard it used in any other context before.

@EmilyIsRad @checkervest I could just be using the word in an overly-broad way, since I didn't grow up with those sort of church-goers but do associate with lots of people that are religious but don't go to any one church, so they "tithe" a portion of their income each month to like, whatever causes seem most relevant, and I don't think it's ever a church.

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